Is it a bird, is it a plane, no, its VZ58 brass!

[Blackstuff]

Hello all,

I will (hopefully) shortly be testing some reloads in my VZ58 MARS rifle which aside from getting a loading that groups well, works in the 16" barrel and will operate the mechanism, I also need to worry about retrieving/retaining the brass!

The gun ejects cases quite violently, upwards and to the front;



They land between 1 and 5 metres away and can be anywhere in an 120 degree arc in front. Finding them at the range at Ponteland is a nightmare as they rarely cut the grass to the front of the firing points. As I've previously been using steel cased ammo this hasn't really been an issue for cleaning up as I've just been taking a shotgun case magnet and getting them that way.

As well as retrieving the cases for further reloading, when I initially start testing the loads I want to inspect the cases immediately after firing to check for signs of excessive pressure for each case. Our club operates a procedure of free firing for a detail of about 20mins then after guns have been proved clear everyone goes forward to patch their targets. Its during this time I pick up cases. Firing one round per 20 min detail (when there may only be 5-6 details in the morning) isn't really an option, so I need to come up with a way of preventing the cases going bye-bye.

Had the gun ejected in the more conventional sideways manner this would have been a simple case of buying and attaching a rigid brass catcher, but that simply wouldn't work for the VZ58.

For the initial testing I was thinking of removing the gas piston from the gun which would effectively render it a straight pull. However, this would mean the gas being channeled to operate the mechanism is just left to blast into the handguard. If this is to unpleasant levels then its obviously not going to be practical. Further, could this lead to a greater loss of velocity of the rounds had the gun being operating normally and thus skew any accuracy results down range?

The other option is to deflect the cases either with something mounted to the gun (it has multiple picatinny rails), or have something as simple as an umbrella above it to prevent the brass going into orbit??

Any other ideas??

[jmc67]

Is that coming straight up in front of the scope? How about a bag type brass catcher (Caldwell do them amongst others), but I'm guessing it'd need to be modified to fit as I've only seen them for side mount before. If you're after a custom solution, these guys might be able to help (http://www.elmfg.com/store/brasscatcher ... chor-45656). I got one for my AUG from them and they are very well made.

[WelshShooter]

It might be possible to construct a device whereby you attach a fishing net between to poles and plant them into the ground at your 1 o'clock position? Sort of like the net for a ping-pong table but higher. This should stop your brass from flying forward, and hopefully dropping to the ground.

I know Caldwell make a brass catcher but as far as I'm aware that was for an AR-15 type rifle so doubt it would fit your rifle.

[dromia]

One squeeze of the trigger, two lethal projectiles.

Got to be section 5.

[phaedra1106]

Possible simple answer, peg out a ground sheet or tarp in front of you and take a long handled broom so you can reach forward and drag them back to you?

Or, train one of Saddlers Guinea Pigs to do case retrieval :)

[TattooedGun]

Having shot VZ-58s in semi auto, if the extraction is the same, and I believe it will be. Then a tarp would need to be 30ft long and 30ft wide to catch all the brass as it's not a consistent spread.

Good luck, it'll be interesting to see what you do, considering the brass comes out of the top of the action and forward, I can't see a solution that doesn't interfere with sight picture.

The obvious solution would be use some of that nasty russian surplus and use it as it was intended... unless you got it in one of those funny nato calibres

[WelshShooter]

Or, train one of Saddlers Guinea Pigs to do case retrieval :)

I completely forgot that Saddlers display pic used to be the "havoc" guinea pig. Didn't realise he actually had any. Reminds me of my guinea pig, I managed to teach her a couple of tricks but fetching cases would be out of the question unless they were strawberry scented...

[snayperskaya]

The obvious solution would be use some of that nasty russian surplus and use it as it was intended... unless you got it in one of those funny nato calibres

Thats what I was thinking, if it has a chrome lined barrel it won't be a tack driver anyway.....

Why's it nasty Russian surplus?....if it is a chrome lined 7.62x39 it's designed for it, especially if you find some Czech milsurp.

[Blackstuff]

I think I actually have one of those 'fishnet' style brass catchers somewhere, I got it before getting a rigid one from the place JMC67 suggested. I seem to remember it didn't work properly in the correctly orientated 3 o'clock position, so goodness knows what would happen at the 12 o'clock with the net draped to one side.... Then again I suppose all it has to do is stop the brass without dinging the cases up. I think i'll have a look for it when I get home, worth a try at least....

I was also thinking about a net above the rifle, or even something as simple as a sheet of heavy gauge cardboard angled to ping the brass off to one side (that's if the brass didn't just imbed itself in the card!!)

I did contemplate setting out a tarp in front with a curled front lip to catch the cases but the RCO might get a bit fidgety if I'm leaning forward to pick up the cases... Why can't someone invent a brass magnet FGS!

I know how precious Saddler is about his children, sorry guinea pigs so I wouldn't want to risk them scalding their paws!

I was cursing myself a bit when I found out the .223 version has a 1 in 7 twist so needs a 'heavy' bullet to get the most out of it, and wishing I'd gone for a 7.62x39mm but a couple of friends who have AK's have said they're starting to have difficulty getting even milsurp rounds for a decent price locally.

Thanks for the input folks

[phaedra1106]

Didn't realise he actually had any.

"Any" would be a bit of an understatement, you'd just about need to borrow a football team if you wanted to count them using fingers & toes