The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

It's been suggested the muzzle brake is interfering with my Saiga AK 103's accuracy (don't laugh) and is the reason for my large grouping. I say grouping but the rounds still being broadly in the county of Surrey directly ahead of me may be pushing it a bit.
I might be exaggerating but it is fair to say a grouping in my case counts as being on the black of the target somewhere if not all in the same place.

It's easy to remove to see if that's true. However, if it is true and improves accuracy, then I'd like to remove the whole arrangement entirely and just have a sight block up front with no brake or threading for one at all.

Looking at various Youtube vids it looks like the Saiga's brake is integral with the sight block. So it looks like to remove it all I have to do is unscrew the brake, drift out the sight block pins from right to left, support the sight block in a vice (with adequate protection) and then drift the barrel out of the block with a nylon drift and a hammer.

My question is - can I then get an ordinary AK sight block to fit right back on and be left with nothing more than a regular barrel and no threading. I'd always assumed the traditional slash cut AK brake was threaded onto the barrel - so I don't need nor want to thread the barrel and should be golden?

Is that correct?

When I owned a Saiga, that's essentially what I did - took the original combined sight block/flash hider off and replaced it with a threaded (M24x1.5) sight block. It wasn't the easiest of jobs as the replacement block was a very snug fit but it was worth it, as I was now able to shoot it with a moderator fitted.

Edit - My Saiga was an M3 (AK101) in 223 with 16" barrel and a 1:7 twist.

Saiga muzzle brake is not integral with front sight block-ok,M24x1.5 thread is but the rest can be removed,now probably welded and pinned.If you got your numbers right it is a 7.62x39 version and correct brake must be fitted.For example any bottle shaped from AKSU is big no-no.Ammo is another thing....one person here will tell you soon milsurplus only(ok,DDR or Czech is the best...)....but I will suggest Barnaul FMJ hunting ammo-more consistent in my Arsenal.Can you be more precise about groups/distance???

My old Saiga 103 was accurate with the muzzle brake (as they are designed to be) and was the most accurate of all the AK variants I've owned.The brake will unscrew from the front sight block if you push the detent pin in and unscrew it....bearing in mind it is a lefthand thread and the brake may well be seized on if its never been off.With mine there was no noticeable difference in accuracy with the brake on or off, my Romy AKM is the same.

The brake on the 103-based Saiga the brake shouldn't be pinned and welded, that is normally done on the 104-based carbine in order to comply with barrel/overall length requirement.

The thread is indeed integral with the sight block and if you really want to change the front sight block I have a spare one from an AKM knocking about somewhere you are welcome to but I believe the journal size may be slightly different as the AK-100 series/Saiga's use an AK-74 barrel profile.If it helps the AKM FSB journal size is .572"

This might help you.....


Front Sight Base Barrel Diameters

AKM group;

Russian: FSB ID: .574 w/.003-.004 press fit
Chinese: FSB ID: .594 w/.003-.004 press fit
Euro pattern: FSB ID: .575w/.003-.004 press fit
Bulgarian: FSB ID: .575w/.003-.004 press fit
German: FSB ID: .575w/.003-.004press fit
Romanian: FSB ID .574w/.003-.004 press fit
Egyptian: FSB ID .574w/.003-.004 press fit
Hungarian: FSB ID .574w/.003-.004 press fit



AK-74 FSB;

Russian: FSB ID .570-.574**
Bulgarian:FSB ID .570-.574
German: FSB ID .570-.574
Romanian:FSB ID .517-.520

**Also applies to AK-100/Saiga series rifles.


If you want the front sight block I have give me a shout, but from memory it is a bare one with undrilled pin holes and I believe it is a Polish one.

Edit.....it may be a daft question but is your front sight block definitely pinned?, just wondering as on later Saigas it was retained by two pressed "dimples" on either side......if it is dimpled these have to be drilled out before the sight block can be removed.The sight post can be removed using a two leg bearing puller, a suitable metal plate to sit behind the sight post and a piece of brass rod with one end turned down to 7.6mm to fit inside the barrel and the other end suitably sized so the internal bore of the sight block with pass over it......those sight posts can be very tight and trying to whack the barrel through the post may well be too much for a nylon drift!.....failing that find someone with a workshop press, that will soon remove it.

Cheers for all the info - really useful.

The brake unscrews easily on mine - it's a conventional righty-tighty lefty-loosey thread.
I usually shoot ten inch Shoot 'N' See targets at 100 yards - I'm hitting the target but it's a liberal peppering rather than a grouping - with plenty hitting the white paper I pin them up on.

This is the current sight block. I could just make life easy and have the threaded section machined off but it seems a waste.

My bad, the 24mm brakes are RH thread.....its the 14mm ones that are left . That seems odd, it should be more accurate than that.....what's the crown like?.I don't shoot for groups with mine, it is in it's element at somewhere like Sennybridge dropping Fig11s, but it will put every round in a 10" target at 100m easily.Is there much "wobble" in the brake when it is fitted?, there should be some but not excessive.

Has anyone else shot it and got the same results?.Have you had it the rifle for a while and are you using iron sights?.......and it may be a daft question but are the sights zero'd correctly?

https://youtu.be/wdX1PiHvy-U

Another consideration could be that due to how a straight-pull has to be cycled it could be that your Natural Point of Aim is upset each time you cycle the action which will have an effect on your group sizes......with a semi-auto for example after each shot the sights would return to your NPA ready for the next shot without moving your head etc.

http://artoftherifleblog.com/natural-po ... f-aim.html

snayperskaya wrote:My bad, the 24mm brakes are RH thread.....its the 14mm ones that are left . That seems odd, it should be more accurate than that.....what's the crown like?.I don't shoot for groups with mine, it is in it's element at somewhere like Sennybridge dropping Fig11s, but it will put every round in a 10" target at 100m easily.Is there much "wobble" in the brake when it is fitted?, there should be some but not excessive.

Has anyone else shot it and got the same results?.Have you had it the rifle for a while and are you using iron sights?.......and it may be a daft question but are the sights zero'd correctly?

https://youtu.be/wdX1PiHvy-U

Crown seems OK visually. No wobble in the brake. I hold the detent down, screw the brake all the way down, release the detent and unscrew until it locks at its earliest point. This is a target I shot last visit to Bisley on Short Siberia with iron sights at 100 yards sitting at a bench. It's a ten inch Shoot 'n' See - it looks pretty reasonable but it doesn't include the backdrop paper it was taped to which had a lot of similarly erratic rounds. No, nobody else has shot with it to compare with.



And this is one from the same distance, again, carry handle iron sights shot with my SGC .223 Speedmaster. Obviously I'm not expecting the same kind of grouping from such chalk and cheese rifles but a tighter grouping would be nice if poss.

Ergh...sorry-are you pulling our legs or something else....handloads against milsurplus.....????keep trying and post picture of the brake.....here you have Barnaul fmj hunting,100m and 4x scope(rotated 90deg),red circle is 3".
And bottom one-handloads,just started few months
ago,had only 2 sessions -100m and 4x scope.Barrel is 12" "long"...2.5"×3.5" group because of 1 flyer ,also rotated 90deg;problems with upload

polemass wrote:

20170406_180741.jpg

Ergh...sorry-are you pulling our legs or something else....handloads against milsurplus.....????keep trying and post picture of the brake.....here you have Barnaul fmj hunting,100m and 4x scope(rotated 90deg),red circle is 3".
And bottom one-handloads,just started few months
ago,had only 2 sessions -100m and 4x scope.Barrel is 12" "long"...2.5"×3.5" group because of 1 flyer ,also rotated 90deg;problems with upload

The second target was just to illustrate that usually I can consistently get a reasonable group when things are set up OK even with iron sights.


You seem familiar. Didn't you stop and chat with me mid November last year on Short Siberia 100 yards - I was sitting at a bench. I think you were with your son and had been shooting prone further up the line.