It never ends the Nightmare FAC/SGC/Air Weapon renewal!

[Fedaykin]

Today my new FAC/SGC and Scottish Air Weapon certificates dropped on my front door mat, a month after my renewal date! All my guns are lodged with an RFD whilst I have been trying to sort out the mess that has been my renewal!

It has been a litany of frustrations, my renewal was due for the 5th of December 2017:

Issue 1) In September I put in the paperwork now requested by the Police of your Doctor to prove your fitness to own guns a requirement required since 2016. A mark has to be put on your medical record and a form sent back by your Doctor to the Police stating no concern. One week after I put in the paperwork with the GP I registered with when I moved to Scotland phoned to say they were not going to process it as they didn't have my medical records from my previous practice in England. I then had to spend three months chasing my GP practice, my previous GP, Practice services in Aberdeen and tangentially CAPITA the company that has the contract to move records between England and Scotland. Eventually a week after I had to lodge my guns with an RFD in December as my certificates had run out a CD Rom arrives at my GP practice with my medical records on. On questioning the Firearms licensing office if the records can't be found they have no process for that and if a GP won't sign off ... no guns!

Issue 2) The CD Rom doesn't work on their computers. The secretary at the GP practice decides to ask my old GP to fax them a copy of my short record something they could have done three months earlier!

Issue 4) Another week passes whilst they wait for the fax.

Issue 5) Another week passes until the Doctor actually looks at it then I get the call asking for payment, £55 for this practice and they only accept cash as this GP practice appears to be run in the Dark Ages! Stellar service

Issue 6) This is the last few days before Christmas so the form doesn't get to the Police until the 28th of December for processing. Firearms office won't sort them until following week.

So today the certificates dropped on my doormat I open the envelope and my initial excitement drops like a lead brick thrown of a cliff....mistakes!

Mistake 1) More of a grievance really and I could live with it. The issue date for the new Certificates is the 6th of December 2017 making them in effect Four year and Eleven Month certificates. I can understand they can't exactly match the date to when it arrives but they could at least of marked them 3rd of January!

Mistake 2) Another that I could have rolled with. On my old certificate i had requested but never purchased Four moderators, I had decide to drop it down to one on my renewal and took care to explain to the FEO when she visited. Well I have four variable moderator slots on the new ticket! Not a big deal but a niggle.

Mistake 3) I requested .38 Special/.357 Magnum and they have put in the authorisation to purchase the rifle but missed out the authorisation to buy ammunition. So I can buy the rifle which I can stare at lovingly gathering dust in my cabinet but not shoot it!

Mistake 4) I requested 8 x 50r this time they have put in the authorisation to buy ammunition but missed the authorisation to purchase the rifle. So I can reload 100rds of 8x50r and stare lovingly at it gathering dust in my ammo safe but not buy the rifle to shoot it in!



So a phone call on Monday to the Licensing office, no doubt it will be the usual when THEY make mistakes send it back with a covering letter!

A side note about the £55 fee, whilst personally I don't have issue with paying a fee to your GP to do some work the amount paid is totally a result of the utter mess made by our representative organisations! There is no agreed fee or process to deal with these kinds of situations. In the end the BMA told their Doctors not to do it at all ... no money no work! BASC told its members not to pay anything! The NRA ... who knows?! The Police have there process and won't budge however Kafkaesque the situation can get as it is not their problem!

I have been holding off writing up this sorry story but at this point I wanted to put it up as a warning to fellow shooters!

If you move and change Doctor do not expect the medical records to arrive at your new GP, if a perfectly healthy person registers they will let the NHS trust know so they start getting the money they are due for another patient registered at their practice and send off for your old records. They will not lift a single finger to chase your records up if they don't arrive, the onus is on you to chase them or you could end up in the situation I did!

[Andy632]

Whoopee, why am I not surprised???

Does this mean you can actually get your guns back or are you going to get your ticket sorted out first??

Hope you've checked all the numbers etc. are correct..................It wouldn't be the first time PS have mucked up firearm numbering on replacement certificates.

[Fedaykin]

Whoopee, why am I not surprised???

Does this mean you can actually get your guns back or are you going to get your ticket sorted out first??

Hope you've checked all the numbers etc. are correct..................It wouldn't be the first time PS have mucked up firearm numbering on replacement certificates.

Hi just tried to phone, going to get the ticket sorted out first. I am on a business trip next week from Tuesday to Thursday, so if I phone them and drop off the certificate with cover letter at Old Perth Road on Monday (not posting and delaying this even further) that gives them the rest of the week to get it sorted.

The last time I had to send a certificate back with a cover letter they had it back quick. I will probably let the moderator and the issue date things ride. If they REALLY want me to have four moderator slots why should I complain! It is getting the ammo and rifle purchase thing sorted out, why they would think someone wants to own the ammo for a 130 year old obscure French calibre but not the rifle I can only guess. Likewise If I want to buy something in .38Special/.357 Mag one might think I would want to buy some ammunition for it!

Checking the serial numbers in a moment at a glance they seem correct but that might not be so! Heck I am sure my guns are during their Holiday on the Black Isle!

[Sandgroper]

IIRC my renewal was about 4 weeks late and when I queried this with my FLO he said that I didn't have to lodge my firearms with an RFD as Scottish legislation covers this and makes allowances should the renewnal be late - so I didn't and nothing was said in that regard.


Edit: The only reference I could find was from Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP -

Thirdly, subsection (5) of new clause 7 would clarify the law with regard to certificate renewals, and replicate the provision in Scottish legislation that ensures that the possession of firearms remains lawful when there is a delay in renewal. This has happened to me. An application may be made to the police in good time, but because of the number of certificates that the police have to inspect and then decide whether to grant, they do not actually renew the certificate on time. Unless they issue a section 7 temporary permit, the person holding the firearms or shotguns is doing so illegally because the certificate has not been renewed. I therefore suggest the adoption of the Scottish solution.

This was from a debate late year about the Plocing and Crime Bill.

[Dorset_shooter]

I feel your pain, but I’m 9 months down. I’m just praying it’s correct when I get it.

[Fedaykin]

A week before the ticket was running out I got a call from the Police Officer dealing with my renewal, basically he didn't even put a Form 7 down as an option. It was lodge with an RFD or they come on the 5th of December and seize the guns and ammunition, I pointed out that I didn't want them in Police care as those who do take that option get them returned in a damaged state. He agreed that they wouldn't show any care to my property and just sling them in a cupboard.

There a number of parallel issues here:

1) The medical check process has caused huge problems for renewals nationally, according to BASC it is the number one reason given by members when they call for help. Because the BMA, Police and Shooting organisations failed to come to an agreement about how to handle the new process with all sides digging their heals in what has happened in reality is Gun owners are facing renewal and application delays and a fee that is literally up to the whim of the medical practice. What should have happened is an agreed process with an agreed fee with further systems put in place to handle Doctors who are Anti Gun and refuse to do it or if medical records are lost.

2) The process of filling in the forms to apply or renew a FAC, SGC and Air Weapon certificate (Scotland) are open to processing mistakes. We have a situation where you have to fill in a paper form which then has to be manually transcribed by the probably overworked Firearms licensing office. If you are like myself with multiple guns, ammunition slots and purchase slots it is hardly surprising that they mistakes. I don't think there has been a time I haven't had to send a certificate back with a covering letter because of mistakes. I actually helped out the local firearms office and used the online Pdf version that you can fill on the computer before printing out so they wouldn't have to deal with my hand writing and they still made mistakes!

As for solutions? Well most things that I have to apply for now are done electronically online whilst I understand that you need to provide provision for the tiny part of the population that can't use a computer the whole application and renewal process should be moved onto a secure web based service. That way when they are processing the paperwork they just press a button and it is automatically printed out correctly rather than the current situation where they have to manually type in the details they have read off a form.

This could all be much easier than it is now!

[Alpha1]

I agree an electronic system would be easier
Is this a Scotland thing up to now my local licencing dept has been fine.

[safetyfirst]

Amazing incompetence. Great that they have now made it difficult for firearms owners to seek help with mental health issues for fear of losing their often lifelong hobby.

Slow clap.

[Fedaykin]

No this is a national issue albeit my move to Scotland a few years back exacerbated the situation. It is a postcode lottery when it comes to how efficiently these things are processed. My issues are frustrating but there are people who have faced far worse.

[Alpha1]

I guess I have just been lucky then. I have a very good relationship with my licensing authority. I can get a variation in a week. My club members who are in the same area have no problems with renewals normally less than a month. I do make a point of keeping them in the loop with range days guest days probationers etc. Maybe that makes a difference. Or as I say may be I am just lucky.
My biggest headache is the MOD(Ministry of Defence) and Landmarc renewing range licences and booking ranges. They need dragging into the real world. But I'm working on it.