Question about rifle minimum overall length

[Brian838]

Hi, I'm aware of the 12in/24in minimum length for rimfire rifles to be section 1 legal in the UK.
My question is, if a rifle originally had a 16in barrel but was less than 24in minimum OAL, and was then fitted with a flash hider (before it was imported into the UK) to make the minimum overall length greater than 24in, would this be legal in the UK?
Many thanks,
Brian.

[Sim G]

No, it would not be legal in mainland UK. As per s7 Firearms Amendment Act 1988, it was previously a firearm as described in s5(1)(aba) of the Firearms Act 1968, and as such it will be regarded as regardless as to whatever is done to the firearm in order to try and have it meet s1 stipulations.

[Blackstuff]

This was done to death last year. The counter argument to the above was that UK law does not apply outside of the UK so providing the gun was manufactured/altered outside of the UK and then enters the UK in a Section 1 format then it would be OK.

I can't remember anyone providing any conclusive case law either way last time around so the only way to know for sure would be to go to court. Want to lend a fiver?

[safetyfirst]

I believe to be 100% legal it has to come out of the factory as section 1 spec.

If it was ever assembled as what would be section 5 then it’ll stay that way no matter how many unicorn horns get taped to the end. :)

[breacher]

I dont know if they set a precedent / case law but.......

I have seen a lot of US manufactured pump shotguns originally available in USA with 18.5" barrels with a tube welded on to bring up to 24" and sold as section one.

In your scenario - is it a buttstock issue ? Is the buttstock original or is it modular ( as per AR15 etc which is offered for sale with varying types and lengths of buttstock )

Or a bullpup ?

[Sim G]

Shotguns have a specifically legislated exemption.

Again Mark, it has nothing to do with “UK law not applying abroad”, the point of law is that at ANY TIME a firearm is as described as it is in s5(1), then in UK law it remains prohibited.

An analagy would be, any person who has been a torturer anywhere else in the world would still be regarded as a torturer in the UK, even though some countries allow torture...

[Blackstuff]

Yes but unless that person tortured someone in the UK, they would not have committed an offence in the UK (extradition, treaties etc etc not included)

ANYWAY, i'm not getting drawn into this quagmire again. My statement still stands, without conclusive case law, you'll need to go to court to get a 100% answer.

[Sim G]

No, he doesn’t need to have committed the offence of torture in the UK, or even to have to be a UK national to be guilty of the offence of torture as far as UK law is concerned.

Likewise, there is no need for case law on s7 FAA 1988 there’s no ambiguity. If at ANY TIME it was prohibited, it will always be prohibited ...

[Brian838]

I dont know if they set a precedent / case law but.......

I have seen a lot of US manufactured pump shotguns originally available in USA with 18.5" barrels with a tube welded on to bring up to 24" and sold as section one.

In your scenario - is it a buttstock issue ? Is the buttstock original or is it modular ( as per AR15 etc which is offered for sale with varying types and lengths of buttstock )

Or a bullpup ?

I did have my suspicions regarding this. What gave me hope though, was as you said, my Mossberg 590 has had a barrel extension fitted to it at some point and this had not remained section 5

The rifle in question has had a flash hider added in the US to make the barrel 18in (increasing the OAL to 26in). These are then shipped to Canada where they are now classified as non restricted firearms due to the increased barrel lengths. I contacted the US supplier and he said he would have no problems selling these to a UK importer if they had the correct import licences.

[breacher]

So is it a bullpup or folding buttstock configuration csusing the short OAL ?