Dear Mrs Ford
I have read your update and am left unsure on parts. In the UK we have several types of firearms.
Only Section 1 (S1) shotguns and .22 rimfires (RF) can be Semi auto.
As RF are exempt this leaves (S1) shotguns.
Can you confirm to me that :
"Therefore a semi-automatic firearm remains Category B unless the high capacity magazine is fitted."
Means a S1 shotgun stays in the same legal position it currently is as long as only up to 10 round magazines are used / owned for it.
However we have several other firearms which are not semi auto in the UK. All of which have some sort of manual action. (For example bolt actions.)
Many of these take what you are referring to as "high capacity” magazines. They are not semi auto yet are greater than 60cm in length.
"Following lengthy negotiations, it was agreed that for long firearms exceeding 60 cm a magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds would be restricted, while for a short firearm the limit would be at 20 rounds. This was a major negotiating point for the European Council."
Is the magazine ban (or required authorisation) for all magazines in all types of firearms or are magazines for RF and non semi auto CF rifles exempt?
Lastly magazines age. A magazine that once held 10 rounds over time may eventually hold 11 and with a little effort. As long as it had not been purposely tampered with how would this effect its legal position as the owner would not necessary know this had occurred.
Shotgun magazine are often tubular. Whilst a magazine may hold 10 standard size shotgun carts shorter cartridges can be found. Several more 2 inch cartridges could theoretically fit into this tube.
In the UK. This could already happen in Section 2 (S2) semi auto shotguns. Which are limited to 3 cartridges in the gun and held on a shotgun certificate. Both the police and the home office are aware off this flaw but accept it and the general instruction given by issuing forces is “don't and if we find out you are we will revoke your certificate”. In reality this not an issue as these gun are unlikely to be able to cycle with this type of cartridge.
I realise that this maybe all premature from a UK perspective due to “Brexit”.
Thank you
Their response.
Dear Mr Hartley,
On behalf of Mrs Ford please find the following remarks below in red. I hope this proves useful to clarify some of the queries you raised.
Best wishes,
Raphael Papamichael
Dear Mrs Ford
I have read your update and am left unsure on parts. In the UK we have several types of firearms.
Only Section 1 (S1) shotguns and .22 rimfires (RF) can be Semi auto.
As RF are exempt this leaves (S1) shotguns.
Can you confirm to me that :
"Therefore a semi-automatic firearm remains Category B unless the high capacity magazine is fitted."
Means a S1 shotgun stays in the same legal position it currently is as long as only up to 10 round magazines are used / owned for it.
[Yes.]
However we have several other firearms which are not semi auto in the UK. All of which have some sort of manual action. (For example bolt actions.)
Many of these take what you are referring to as "high capacity” magazines. They are not semi auto yet are greater than 60cm in length.
"Following lengthy negotiations, it was agreed that for long firearms exceeding 60 cm a magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds would be restricted, while for a short firearm the limit would be at 20 rounds. This was a major negotiating point for the European Council."
Is the magazine ban (or required authorisation) for all magazines in all types of firearms or are magazines for RF and non semi auto CF rifles exempt?
[It's not a magazine "ban" it's a restriction on owning BOTH a semi auto CF AND a high cap mag used for CF ammunition that fits that specific firearm. Magazines for rim-fire are not covered by this restriction. The restriction does not make owning both illegal but makes it clear that then owner risks losing their licence. Only those with an authorisation to hold Cat A firearms are permitted to acquire high capacity mags. A transition period is foreseen for this new authorisation.]
Lastly magazines age. A magazine that once held 10 rounds over time may eventually hold 11 and with a little effort. As long as it had not been purposely tampered with how would this effect its legal position as the owner would not necessary know this had occurred.
[Not discussed.]
Shotgun magazine are often tubular. Whilst a magazine may hold 10 standard size shotgun carts shorter cartridges can be found. Several more 2 inch cartridges could theoretically fit into this tube.
[In this case it may be a theoretical possibility, but we view this as an issue of proper implementation which would be based on the production capacity of the magazine, i.e. the magazine's standard capacity without modification. The example provided of the UK approach is a sensible one.]
This seems provide some clarity with how things would be affected in the UK context, basically rimfires fine, straight-pull, lever/trigger release, bolt action etc etc fine, semi-auto shotguns with either tube or detachable magazines DESIGNED as 10 rds or less fine, semi-auto shotguns with tube or box mag exceeding 10rds require authorization/exemption. I can only presume that the exemption in the UK would take the form of a condition on your FAC.
I would urge EVERYONE who can*, to apply for the condition even if you have no intention of fitting a 11rd+ magazine to your gun in order to 'normalise' it within police FLD departments so those that need it don't also have to put up with oblivious FEO's who have seemingly never heard of it.
*i.e. those that use FAC shotguns for competition.
What this does however clearly show is that the proposals have nothing whatsoever to do with fighting terrorism/crime as possession of a 'high-capacity' magazine ISN'T going to be illegal. Possession of such a magazine by a LEGAL SHOOTER (who owns a centre-fire semi-auto rifle/shotgun that it would fit in), without authorization would result in their certificate being revoked
